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Receiving Guerreros!

topic posted Sat, March 26, 2011 - 4:32 PM by  Veronica
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Hi everyone! Can someone please clarify the difference for me on receiving your guerreros from a Santero instead of a babalwo?
posted by:
Veronica
Miami
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  • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

    Sat, March 26, 2011 - 11:21 PM


    The only think I know is if it is meant for you to be crowned then prior to doing so you must obtain and eleggua from a santero and not the Eshu from a babalawo..


    I would love an elder to go into detail if that is possible..

    Blessings!!!
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Receiving Guerreros!

      Tue, April 5, 2011 - 12:38 PM
      Quote from a Cuban Lukumi Babalawo ...


      " Well ...Santeros are not supposed to make esu's , eleguas or give warriors ... but some of them do"
      • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

        Tue, April 5, 2011 - 12:43 PM
        On this situation I have heard of these things being taken away during the time of there ITA, but wether the had listened well that's upon them. I've also had heard of people not being able to have god children according to there odu's as well.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Receiving Guerreros!

          Tue, April 5, 2011 - 12:56 PM
          @ Jeremy,

          I have seen the same. Sometimes a persons Odu speaks of practicing as a priest only for the benefit of themselves and their family.

          Ire,
          Awo Fabukun
    • entrada de guerreros

      Mon, February 13, 2012 - 12:57 PM
      I read most of your post and u seem very wise... i just got my warriors... and then had a reading done by a babalow... he said that myelegua was not complete... that made me doubt my padrino.. my question is for my first entrada can any santero do it for me... ? Or it has to be my pad padrino??? Help...
      • Re: entrada de guerreros

        Mon, February 13, 2012 - 1:42 PM
        Any santero who knows the ceremony can do it, but it would be a little better to have your padrino do it for you. Or ask him why he didn't not do this ceremony for you.
  • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

    Sun, March 27, 2011 - 4:47 PM
    Veronica,

    I'm from Candomble, Iyawo of Osala (Obatala). My nation is Efon, descending via Ase Pantanal and Waldomiro Xango. Even though I'm not initiated in Santeria, I'm friends with a couple of Oriates and I also have Awo Faka (and I'm on good terms with the Cuban Babalawo I received it from). In Candomble, we don't really have Babalawos and we don't give warriors - Babalawos are not important for us and warriors is something that started in Cuba.

    Maybe this is a little outside of my area of expertise, but here is what I know: Ogun, Oshossi and Osun of warriors are the same from Babalawo and Santero. The difference is in the Eshu/Eleggua. The Eleggua of the Babalawo can not give birth meaning you can not "make" another Eshu/Eleggua from the one you receive from the Babalawo. Also, the Eshu/Eleggua of the Babalawo should only be fed by the Babalawo. These two things are usually agreed on in Santeria. As with everything in the diaspora, different people might have different oppinions though.

    To my knowledge, receiving an additional Eshu/Eleggua from the Babalawo when doing Kofa, I believe this is not needed. However, I have heard that some people like to receive the Eshu/Eleggus of the Odu they receive when doing Kofa/Awo Faka. This would make sence to me based on several conclusions. However, I don't think its essential.

    I hope this is helpful
    Iyawo Osals
  • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

    Mon, March 28, 2011 - 12:41 PM
    You can receive both, but if you practice Santeria your going to need the at some point in your life. Especially if you need to receive olokun or continue on to doing your saint. You have to have them if you do these ceremony's no if ands or butts about it. Your warriors of IFA that you receive from a babalow are just for you and you only. An the warriors you receive in Santeria and go on to do your saint other warriors can be born from your warriors. Now for me I have both, I decided to do all my ceremony's of IFA first ( warriors/ Mano of orula) so that when I was ready to do my saint everything would go peaceful. And it did, even if you practice Santeria it might come up in a reading that you need to see a babalow and receive your warriors of IFA for your health or your Mano of orula. The choice is yours there both beautiful to have and protect you the same.
  • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

    Mon, March 28, 2011 - 7:08 PM
    Alaafia Veronica,
    I know my response will probably stir up a ruckus but I offer my humble opinion to your question as taught to me by my padrino, who is a Babalawo. His Ile is based in Ifa so everything is taught from that standpoint. We also have Ocha in our house.
    I have heard Padrino explain to many Godchildren the answer to your question.
    The Warrior's are made up of Eshu, Ogun and Ochoosi, along with Osun, who is not a Warrior but needed due to the fact he is humanity's link to God.
    Notice I didn't say Ellegua in the last sentence.
    That is because in a house of Ifa we believe that only a Babalawo can give Warriors to a client.
    I only say this to educate, not to compare so I hope I didn't offend anyone elses beliefs. Not my intention.
    All in the spirit of learning and sharing.
    Oro
    • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

      Mon, March 28, 2011 - 8:08 PM
      Mo dupe "Oro"...
      I'm going to offer my humble opinion in support of your assertion. This is my understanding as well...
      It is also the domain of a babalawo because it is in Ifa that you find the particular Eshu for each and every odu that may come up.
      I dont know about you...but I certainly wouldn't want to receive the "wrong" eshu.

      -Sneaks out before the fur starts flying lol-
      • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

        Tue, March 29, 2011 - 7:34 AM
        @ King... ROFL... very true. It is tough enough to make the journey with the "right" Eshu, and thank you for adding the part about the Odu.
        Blessings,
        Oro
      • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

        Tue, March 29, 2011 - 7:47 AM
        Im with King, Oro, & Jeremy. I actually received my Guerreros (and obviously my Kofa) from a Babalawo. I know I'll receive another Elegua/Eshu when I do Ocha. But I absolutely love my little glutton (Eshu Alayiki) and would be lost with out him..lol And King I am still LOL @ "Sneaks out before the fur starts flying lol"
    • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

      Tue, April 5, 2011 - 11:34 AM
      Quoting you:

      "I know my response will probably stir up a ruckus but I offer my humble opinion to your question as taught to me by my padrino, who is a Babalawo. His Ile is based in Ifa so everything is taught from that standpoint. We also have Ocha in our house.
      I have heard Padrino explain to many Godchildren the answer to your question.
      The Warrior's are made up of Eshu, Ogun and Ochoosi, along with Osun, who is not a Warrior but needed due to the fact he is humanity's link to God.
      Notice I didn't say Ellegua in the last sentence."

      I received my warriors from my padrino, who was also a Babalao (he passed away).
      According to what you said the warriors are: Eshu-not Eleggua (because it was given by a babalao-House of IFa) , Ogun, Ochosi and Osun.

      Now, my two questions:

      1)I have the Eleggua-Eshu inside my house. Shouldn't it be outside? He mentioned it to leave inside a cabinet facing the door.
      I have had other people tell me to have it outside because its an Eshu -coinciding with what you stated.

      2)If I continue on with doing the Santo, I need an Eleggua from a santero?

      3) I never received the ilekes or collares, but was going to get them with the hand of Orula. is this correct?

      Please steer me in the right direction.

      Sserpxe

      • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

        Tue, April 5, 2011 - 1:03 PM
        Hi Hijo,

        I may be off but if Im not mistaken... 1. I think it depends on the Eshu's path. 2. Yes you will receive another Elegua from a Santero/Santera when you do Ocha. 3. You should be receiving your Awofakon/Hand of Orula with a Babalawo so you would not be receiving your Elekes/Collares from him. You would only receive your Elekes of Orula from him. Receiving your Elekes/Collares is a whole different ceremony you would do with a Santero/Santera. If I am wrong anyone please feel free to jump in.
        • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

          Tue, April 5, 2011 - 1:11 PM
          Just to add what Dana is saying in are house the babalow many just gave eleke of orula and or IDE's of orula and because his wife had her Ocha made she would do the elekes of the orisha's. Now if the babalow wasn't married he would take them to a santero/santera who worked close with for the person to get there elekes from.
          • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

            Tue, April 5, 2011 - 1:18 PM
            Thanks Jeremy..So many rules and regulations it can get confusing at times..lol
            • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

              Tue, April 5, 2011 - 4:49 PM
              Thanks everyone for your feedback.i really appreciate it!

              Should I take him outdoors? lol he will sut me down for good

              I found out just recently that an Eshu given by a Babalao may be kept indoors if the proper ebbbo is given.
              I looked through the literature and I found out there is an Eshu-laroye that may be kept indoors.

              I am sooo confused?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)
              • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                Tue, April 5, 2011 - 6:11 PM
                Your padrino in IFA will let you know what path you have. Don't jump to conclusions cause not everyone gets the same ESU, it depends on what path he pull's for you. And becareful reading so much books or online postings. They will only confuse you sometimes. For my advice to you learn as much from your padrino and get the basic's before you start reading this and that. It's good to read but some house's do thing's a little different at each house or ILE
                • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                  Tue, April 5, 2011 - 7:49 PM
                  My padrino passed away last year
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                    Tue, April 5, 2011 - 8:30 PM
                    I'm sorry to hear that, sorry for your loss. So do you have a Eshu-laroye? Is that what you are asking?
                    • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                      Tue, April 5, 2011 - 8:38 PM
                      Jeremy,

                      Thanks. Appreciate it.

                      I am not sure what path it is.
                      .
                      My padrino said I should keep it next to the door, inside the house.

                      The thing of it is he was a babalao and he could only give me an Eshu-xxx

                      Eshus are not supposed be indoors. They will wreak havoc with your life.

                      So now that I have read up on it and become more informed he is no longer around to clarify.

                      Was there an offering he made so I could keep indoors? I am sure they do as for example what about people who live in apartments?

                      What should I do in your opinion?

                      • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                        Tue, April 5, 2011 - 9:05 PM
                        Well if you have a gerage you can put him in there or right out side you back yard door patio area. But above all things were in your heart do you feel he is telling you were to put him?
                        • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                          Tue, April 5, 2011 - 10:14 PM
                          Hi, All!

                          For what it's worth, I have an Eleggua (Eshu Aye) from a Santero, and an Eshu (Irete Nteleu) from a Babalawo, and both of them live in a cabinet inside of the house, behind the front door and so far, both seem content (or at least willing to pretend that They are content).

                          What I find interesting from this current conversation is that, while I knew (through academic research) that the Yoruba tradition was/is to normally keep Eleggua/Eshu outside, I had never had someone within the religion of Santeria suggest doing the same. So... ya'll can imagine my surprise when, while still living in Alaska and shortly after I received Eshu Aye and the Warriors (which, incidentally, was my second set of Warriors; I returned my first set when I left the ile of my first godmother -- but that's another story...), I kept getting the strongest feeling that They wanted to be outside! I thought They were NUTS! I mean, really -- there were moose and grizzly bears and winter temperatures that dropped down regularly to 20 degrees below freezing (and btw, rum WILL freeze solid at 20 below! "The Boys" found this out for Themselves!). But They were insistent, and so I bought Them a cabinet with a screened front and set Them on the covered front porch beside the door. Call me crazy, but They seemed to love it! In fact, when we moved to DC, I met with a bit of resistance when I told Them that I feared for Their safety if I left Them on the front porch of my rowhouse and They were just gonna have to adapt to indoor living for a while! Alaskan "mega-fauna" and temperature extremes are one thing -- crazy, vicious, stupid humans are another! I'm fairly certain that I can hear Them grumble from time to time, but They know my intent has nothing to do with "personal desire" and everything to do with protecting Them so They can continue protecting me, so They've kindly indulged me in this matter -- at least for the meantime! <chuckle>

                          What I'm getting at is this: Listen to your orishas. Folks will give you opinions from sunrise to sunset, but at the end of the day, it's really about you and your relationship with your Guardians. Mind you, I'm not suggesting that you, in ignorance and/or arrogance, go out and "do your own thing"! Quite the contrary! In the beginning, we each need to "be schooled" in regards to the beliefs and practices of this religion, not only out of respect for our elders, but also out of respect for our orishas. But there will come a time when each of us has to take our generalized education and tailor it to fit the needs or wants of our individual orishas, and it is in preparation for this future (or for some, present) event that I encourage developing the ability to "listen" with something more than simply our ears.

                          Listen, learn, adapt, survive...

                          Elaine
                        • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                          Wed, April 6, 2011 - 6:44 PM
                          Jeremy ,

                          My heart says inside. and he has been inside the house for 4 years.

                          I am not saying it's him but lately a lot of weird things have been happening- my bed gets bumped, a big picture frame fell from the wall, the microwave started by itself, an Elmo's toy head started moving by itself after we heard a loud noise in the kid's bedroom.

                          My wife heard someone knocking on the bathroom window while she as showering. I walked out onto the yard, which has a 6' fence all around and there was no one.

                          Just three days ago my two year old was saying "Ya!!" which means "stop" and started crying in the middle of the night. My oldest has told my wife he has seen shadows coming by his bedroom door. They wont sleep without a night light.

                          Stuff like that.

                          I want to do the right thing. But just dont want to piss off the Orishas by doing things that anger them:

                          When I was a little boy a lady was cleaning in her apartment and while dusting he San Lazaro, the saint fell and broke the legs.
                          She threw it in the trash and as she was going down the stairs she fell and broke both legs. I will never forget it.

                          Hence my predicament.




                          • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                            Thu, April 7, 2011 - 7:40 AM
                            Hi Hijo,

                            I know you said your padrino passed last year. Are you going to anyone else now? Id say its time for a reading if you have all these odd things going on. Maybe you or someone in the house picked up something negative. Also did you do entrada for you Guerreros in that house?
                            • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                              Thu, April 7, 2011 - 8:49 AM
                              Dana,

                              Thanks for your response.

                              No. I am not seeing another padrino now. I have to find someone else trustworthy and do a reading..

                              Yes. The entrada ceremony was done.
                      • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                        Wed, April 6, 2011 - 6:13 AM
                        Hijo I am so sorry for your loss. I dont know what I would do if I lost my padrino. As far as my Eshu tho he lives in my house and has for the last 3 years. I originally had my Guerreros in the hallway. I live in a 2 family so I figured what better place than there. They can protect both the entrance to the house itself and my apartment at the same time! But they grew tired of that space about 6 months after I received them and wanted to move into my living room..lol. And that is where they reside now. I can honesly say that the only havoc he has caused with the move in was that I purchased a new table for him to live on because the one he had in the hall way did not match my furniture. (I bought him this really beautiful red and black table since the hallway was white) I left it in the hall as decor but within a month I had gone for a reading and he wanted his table back..lol. My reading would not close and at first we couldnt figure out why..And I just got a gut feeling and said ask if Elegua wants his table back..Sure enough that is what was needed to close the reading! So now I have a very nice neutral living room with a red and black table that goes with absolutely nothing else in the room. But hes is happy now and we know that brings peace so he can have his table..lol
                        • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                          Wed, April 6, 2011 - 8:06 AM
                          Hi, Dana!

                          ROFL!!!! I had something similiar happen to me... I was "discussing" a subject with Oshun, when Eleggua popped in and refused to pop-out until I returned to Him all of the cheap plastic toys I had gotten the day before at a tambor for Eleggua (I had given Him a few of the toys, but set the remainder aside to distribute to neighborhood kids, mainly because I thought they were "gaudy"). He even insisted on a larger saucer in order to accommodate all of the toys! It sure taught me a lesson in regards to who's REALLY in charge around here! LOL

                          Once again, it pays to "listen"! LOL

                          <still chuckling>

                          Elaine
                          • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                            Wed, April 6, 2011 - 8:36 AM
                            Elaine believe me I know! You can not start doing something for him and stop. He will eventually call you out on it..lol. I try not to do too much now though. Ive been told ANYTHING I buy for my Orisha must stay in my posession so now Im quite mindful of that. I bought this beautiful pedastal to set Orula on and he wanted to be up high so now it sits there and collects dust. But I cant give it away so Ill figure out something to do with it eventually. Im about to have to redecorate my living room according to their preference..lol. Question...Do you keep your guys inside a cabinet? Like closed? My stuff is all out in the open. I used to put my Ogun under the table by Elegua but he is such a monster now I couldnt fit him in there if I wanted to..lol
                            • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                              Wed, April 6, 2011 - 11:20 AM
                              Hi, Dana!

                              Since I live in a rowhouse, with a narrow foyer and a radiator behind the front door... and because I don't want our two dogs (a German Shepard and a Great Pyrenees) to eat Eleggua's candy (or for that matter, to eat Eleggua, since He smells of smoked fish, jutia and palm oil! LOL), both Elegguas/Eshus live in a small wood cabinet with a mesh door that remains cracked open; Ogun and Ochosi (in Their cauldron) live crammed behind the front door and the space between the radiator and the outside wall! I originally had "the Boys" all living on top of the metal radiator cover, but the cover was blocking some of the heat from the radiator and the top was getting uncomfortably crowded, so now They're on the floor/in a cabinet on the floor.

                              Elaine
                              • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                                Wed, April 6, 2011 - 11:52 AM
                                Go it..Id be scared to have Ogun on the heat directly..lol. I was asking because I have seen some posts saying their stuff was in closets or cabinets and wondering why..When I first got into this religion I was nervous of what other people would think and one of the first things I thought of was "well I can put them in a cabinet and no one will know"...But when I mentioned that to my Babalawo he said no way you cant cover them. Now I could care less what people think. Its such a big part of who I am if you dont like it there is the door..lol. So my question is...Is it ok to have them "inside" a cabinet or covered?
                                • Unsu...
                                   

                                  Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                                  Wed, April 6, 2011 - 1:32 PM
                                  @ Dana - I also usually keep mine in a cabinet close to the front door. This was actually suggested by my Padrino who is a babalawo also.But you know what? Lately I have been leaving them out. Well to be honest, I've been kinda lazy to put them back in after I tend to them on Mondays. I kinda got used to them outside of the cabinet. So I think this is up to the godparent and a persons personal preference. I've also learned that when they dont like something I may try do with them, they always let me know.
                                  My Eshu's path is Laroye. So I'm thinkin hmmm, let me get him a nice red toy car to leave with him. So after mojubando and lighting a candle to him I go to bed. The next morning the plastic car was melted down to nothing. Not even the wheels were left. It was as if it totally disapeared. So I'm thinking either I left the candle burning to close to the toy car or my Eshu was just not feelin it. So the following Monday I did it again. Wouldnt you know it, this time the toy car just totally disappeared, no melted plastic, no nothing. Soooo, I think its safe to say my Eshu is not feelin da whole toy car thing. But I gotta say, my life has changed dramatically since receiving and working with them.

                                  @ Veronica - congratulations and good luck to you on this spiritual journey called life.
                                  • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                                    Wed, April 6, 2011 - 1:49 PM
                                    @ Jay... I am literally at my desk laughing..Eshu really is a trickster. I couldnt imagine the look on my face if I woke up and something I put to him was just completely gone..But I wouldnt put it past him neither. Sounds like youve got quite the prankster living with you. Maferefun Eshu.
                                • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                                  Wed, April 6, 2011 - 1:47 PM
                                  Hi, Dana;

                                  I've read (somewhere) that there are covered shrines set up for Eleggua/Eshu in Africa... so accepting at the moment such is true, then I choose to perceive of the cabinet as a "covered shrine". Mind you, He's not in there to hide Him from sight (in fact, both of the Eleggua/Eshus are clearly visible through the mesh door, and the door is left cracked open so They are not "restrained" within) -- He's in there to keep dog slobber off and to reduce the possibility of being accidentally kicked because the foyer area is just so small.

                                  I have a small table on the front porch, next to the front door. There is a statue of Saint Lazurus (aka Babaluaiye) sitting in a dish filled with mixed beans and an actively growing onion atop of the table. This mini-shrine is a "test", to see if these items can remain unmolested. It's been safe all winter, but I want to see if the stuff remains undisturbed with the increased activity of the warmer weather. If I can get to a point where I feel that the environment is safe for my "Guys", then I may very well get a larger, screen-fronted cabinet (to keep the squirrels and city rats out and to reduce the idle curiosity of passerbys) to replace the table and move Them outside where it is I think They'd rather be (of course, I'll ask Them specifically before I move Them!).

                                  This isn't Africa and I no longer live in a rural environment.... We all have to adapt -- humans and orishas alike! I think the key is "respectful intent" and a willingness to let Them make Their wishes known and taken into consideration, within whatever constraints this modern world puts upon us all.

                                  Blessings...

                                  Elaine
                                • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

                                  Wed, April 6, 2011 - 6:26 PM
                                  Dana, Elaine
                                  It's ok to have them inside the house by the door inside a cabinet. as long as you don't lock it.

                                  This is what my padrino told me.

                                  I have Eleggua -Eshu and Ogun & Ochosi there but Osun is high up elsewhere in a closet.



  • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

    Tue, April 5, 2011 - 7:08 PM
    Thank you to all who have taken the time to respond. i received my angel de la guardia from a babalwo that works with my madrina who is a santera and my guerreros from her as well , last Thursday . Turns out soy hija de Oba ! Im going to receive Olokun pretty soon and i was told i should go thru a rayamiento as well. Wish me luck. :)
    • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

      Tue, April 5, 2011 - 7:59 PM
      Veronica,
      Congratulations!

      Which palo is it? Monte or Mayombe?

      I am rayado in palo.
      Palo is very strong and fast acting....
      • Re: Receiving Guerreros!

        Wed, April 6, 2011 - 7:23 PM
        Hi Hijo de Oshun,

        Im not sure what palo it is :/ in all honesty i have always respected all forms of palo but never thought of practicing or involving myself with in it so when i was told a queen should not be without her protection i kinda blanked out and said ok well i'll do what i need to do and i didnt ask any questions lol I'll be sure to call my madrina and ask her in the morning.

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