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Francisco y Francisca

topic posted Tue, September 6, 2011 - 12:26 PM by  chris
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i was wondering if anyone can give me a lil more info on them> i know they have to do with egun, but thats about it
posted by:
chris
SF Bay Area
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  • Re: Francisco y Francisca

    Tue, September 6, 2011 - 6:25 PM
    theres a tribe here call espiritismo/eggun, you could find some answer there... there many topics about spiritual guides there.
    Which is who, you are referring to.
  • Re: Francisco y Francisca

    Wed, September 7, 2011 - 10:57 AM
    Hi Chris,

    Francisco and Francisca were actual people in Cuba who became semi-deified after their death. Unforenetly, these spirits have been used as archetypes by many people, and have been spread throughout the Caribbean and US as many people's "Egguns", which is false. Just like Santeria, spiritualism has become watered down and people no longer follow the actual precepts or the work of spiritualism.

    Francisco is the archetype of a wise "slave" man, usually depicted in white and red, and Francisca is always a female spirit, big butt with a kerchief on her head, that is brash and speaks dirty. Now a days, many people are told they have Francisco and Francisca in their quadrant, but i"ve come to find that actually, they are the "same" type spirits that the person may have, just that investigation wasn't done to identify them correctly.

    ~Ged
    • Re: Francisco y Francisca

      Wed, September 7, 2011 - 11:05 AM
      Alafia Ged

      Unfortunately this sort of trend or fad in spiritualism is nothing new... in the 1960s eeeveryone had a Madama. Then in the 1970s eeeeveryone had a Gitana. When people started getting information about Brazil, eeeeveryone had a caboclo LOL

      If I am not mistaken, the same images are used in Brazil but referred to as 'preto velho' and 'preto velha'.

      All the best,

      Ogbe Di
      • Re: Francisco y Francisca

        Wed, September 7, 2011 - 11:11 AM
        Iboru Iboya Oluo,

        I know :( I hate it! lol. My godfather doesn't go to misas for that reason, I quote - "Apparently, only black fat people get buried or whores in gold, because God forbid someone have a Jewish Spirit" lol. I do agree with this reasoning though, I've heard stories of actual Egguns, and though horrible, it is very rare for me to believe in someone mounted - especially if it happens every weekend. I just dont' think the body can handle possession that often!

        Sigh. :( lol

        ~Ged
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Francisco y Francisca

          Wed, September 7, 2011 - 2:36 PM
          The best (worst!) misa experience I ever had in NYC was when an aleyo to Lukumi rites got "possessed" by his "guide" who then came over to me and told me I need to keep my Olokun under an aquarium.

          I literally plotzed, blinked twice, and simply said thank you.

          Needless to say, that was only my second (and final) misa I ever attended on the east coast. :)

          Of all things...Orisha advice from iwin...you just HAVE to love the effort the fake mounts do (or in some cases don't) in order for us to chant "light" at them. LOLOL

          I don't know your godfather Ged, but I like him already! hehe

          Peace,

          Jim / Ogun Funmito
        • Re: Francisco y Francisca

          Wed, September 7, 2011 - 3:54 PM
          Iboru iboya ibochiche

          ROFLMAO... I love it! Your godfather has some deep wisdom there :) It's the same way all the rich New Agers were famous royalty in their past lives. Funny that nobody ever plowed a field, spun a thread, built a wall, or did anything else productive with their time 'in the past' *grin*
          • Re: Francisco y Francisca

            Thu, September 8, 2011 - 8:22 AM
            Thank the gods for ya'll's posts, 'cause I had wondered if it were just me that questioned the appearance of a Gypsy spirit, an Indian spirit, a Francisco/Francisca, and/or a Congo spirit in EVERYONE'S eggun line-up! I was beginning to think that there were only a handful of spirits in the entire spirit world! ROFL

            Elaine
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Francisco y Francisca

              Thu, September 8, 2011 - 10:00 AM
              LOLOL!

              @Elaine: Did you ever get a chance to meet or correspond with my late Babanla, Afolabi / Clay? He had many great jokes and ribs regarding the "army of servants" that everyone had in their shrines.

              Umbanda has been helping me see how all of these archetypes, or classes of spirit energy, don't have as much form or linear reality as other faiths teach. What I've incorporated so far is that when dealing with spirits specifically, one should always allow the spirits to present themselves to you - don't go "looking" for an army of slaves, indians, and sorcerers...you may just overlook the one spirit who can help you most...or on the inverse, you could also end up neglecting spirits that need your help most (I have a very "negative" spirit that walks with me. I only give light and prayers to this spirit for its elevation and ask nothing in return...but it's important to this spirit and my practice to always make sure I'm giving it the light it needs to evolve).

              Plus, I don't know about you...but the idea of nothing BUT gypsies and preto velhos in everyone's court sounds very biased (even though it can be amusing at times!)

              :)

              Peace,

              Jim / Ogun Funmito
        • Re: Francisco y Francisca

          Thu, September 8, 2011 - 1:44 AM
          Well I agree with ged iboro buya ged and he is right I as a palero and espiritista believe that if there is a misa of investigacion it will be more acurate than some one telling you you have a spirit of a francisco and vice versa yes at first it might be a cute and adorable but here is the big but about this your eguns will say their name and will give you all the info from my experience. cause I have many and to now I am getting to know their names at first they daywould say you have a spirit of francisca you have a spirit of francisco ok cool but at the end of the day I have to find out their name and who they really are will it come out in a misa yes but remember the egguns are the ones who decide that and if they chose to tell them they will tell you in a dream or in a vision but at the end of the day it is your eggun. Example= people say oh you have a spirit of francisca ok. You have a spirit that comes that is blue and white she is fairly light skinned and is skinny and i see her with water and melao cleaning you see there is a differnce thats not mentioning francisco or francisca dont let yourself fool by people saying oh you have a francisca or francisco
        • Re: Francisco y Francisca

          Thu, September 8, 2011 - 3:11 PM
          Ase Ged,

          Not to derail the thread, but moreso to point out that there are traditions where an initiate is possessed very frequently...in some cases, daily. The body can definitely handle it, it just takes a lot of experience on the part of surrounding elders to help the elegun become acquainted.

          Ire,
          Dofona
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Francisco y Francisca

        Wed, September 7, 2011 - 2:32 PM
        I can at least confirm the usual Prehto Velho statues are dead-ringers for the Francisco line of spirit images. :)

        I think this is a great example where a specific grouping of characteristics are associated with a singular identity, but in reality is representing a larger expansion of spiritual energy. Umbanda was organized in direct response to various spirit energies (or continuums if you will) kept coming forward and demanding they be recognized - not just those "categories" that Kardecism promoted.

        Umbanda has really helped me learn to let go of rigid, linear forms of thinking. I appreciate the fact that it approaches all levels of spiritual consciousness - from the most elevated to the most primordial. I wish we saw more Umbanda here in the states; especially in communities that have other spiritist traditions already rooted.

        I hope the "everyone has a gypsy" fad dies out soon...it completely removes the spirits' right to manifest to the medium in the way it needs to. :) It's quite surprising to learn you have a Nazi spirit that's in dire need of light and elevation, instead of learning your guide is Cleopatra. LOL

        Peace,

        Jim / Ogun Funmito
  • Re: Francisco y Francisca

    Wed, September 7, 2011 - 1:14 PM
    thank you guys. i also had another question on info about El negrito Jose. i know he works with Chango, when i was little i remember a statue of him in my Padrino's botanica when u walked in. My abuelita use to tell me to leave derecho for him and leave white candles. my padrino would give me cigars to give to him. i dont know much about him all i remeber was he was standing bent over with a Palo and he wore white pants and red shirt and had a cloth sack filled with i have no idea.
    • Re: Francisco y Francisca

      Wed, September 7, 2011 - 2:35 PM
      Chris -

      That is another misconception papi. Chango is Chango, and if he works with spirits, it would be with spirits of his deceased priests. "El Negrito Jose" would have been one of the spirits of your godfather, not of Chango. Some people do these things out of tradition and respect, though in reality, you should always have a candle burning for your spirits when possible, though they don't need to be given money "Derechos".

      ~Ged

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